Impacting Packaging and Choice Subscriptions with Little River Farm
In this episode of the Direct Farm Podcast, we discuss strategies on labelling, packaging, and subscription services with a member of our Farm Advisor Network: Camille Abdel-Nabi of Little River Farm. Little River Farm is a 3-acre certified organic vegetable farm located in Exeter, Rhode Island that specializes in vegetables, root crops, baby greens, and microgreens.
-
[00:00:00]
Rory Loughran: Welcome to the Direct Farm Podcast. I'm Rory your host for today's episode. We've got a great conversation for you today with one of our market development experts and a member of our Farm Advisor Network. Camille Abdel-Nabi of Little River Farms located in Warren, Rhode Island. Welcome Camille, welcome back. It hasn't been too long since it feels like you were just here.
Camille Abdel-Nabi: I know it's great to be back for the second podcast already.
Rory Loughran: Yeah. For a little bit of a refresher or for people that may have missed the last episode, could you tell us a little bit about your farm and what you produce? [00:01:00]
Camille Abdel-Nabi: Sure, yeah. We're Little River Farm and we're located in Rhode Island. We have two different properties that we grow on. One is rented and one we own, and we're really focused on growing salad greens, micro greens, tomatoes, really everything that you need for for a salad.
We have perennial crops, a lot. We do a lot of rhubarb, which is a really nice early season crop before the tomatoes come in, and now we've started to also expand into doing some plant sale in the beginning of the year, but definitely have moved away from doing those heavier storage crops and have gone more to the fresh greens.
Rory Loughran: Awesome. You kinda started to get to it there, but how did you get to the product mix that you're currently offering and what was the process of going more and more towards like, I think last time you talked about that too like, you kind of see it as like, we're building out the salad, really.
Camille Abdel-Nabi: Yeah, I think we [00:02:00] really made the change when we became a no-till farm and we moved away from using a lot of machinery and tractors. We just found that didn't suit our personality so well. And once you're a no till, preparing beds for winter squash and that type of stuff, it's just not nearly as profitable when you're doing it all by hand.
So that was one part of it. And then we also just found that we were always selling out of salad greens at the markets, and there was this really big demand for it. And when we did a crop budget analysis, we also found that it's one of the crops that on a small farm, we could actually produce in volume and sell at a lower discount.
So it was those two things that came together and also it's just really what we like to grow. And I think it is important to take those things into consideration. What do you like, what suits you?
Rory Loughran: Yeah that's really such like a business approach to it [00:03:00] too. It's looking at like one, what do you like to grow, but then also how what's going to work well for our farm and in our market, what people want and things like that. So this is a really smart way of going about it.
I think a lot of times the appeal for farmers is that they can grow and provide things that maybe people can't get at the grocery store and so the idea of growing all these different kinds of tomatoes or a bunch of different kinds of all these different kinds of produce, really, and then offering that to their customers can be really appealing, but it can overextend a farmer really quick.
And then you're trying to keep up with all these different things, that unique products and the kind of niche products that you're growing at your farm. Obviously, it sounds like you guys maybe went through a little bit of that, but what would be your advice to farmers, especially in produce, who are working on narrowing down that product offering to provide more specific things to their customers?
Camille Abdel-Nabi: Yeah, I would look around and try to see what there is a need for, visit the farmer's markets, talk to some local stores and ask them what they're looking for and [00:04:00] see if that suits what you can do. And sometimes you just have to try as well and see what suits your soil, what suits your climate and your land, but definitely try to find what people want to buy and start there and see if you can produce that.
Rory Loughran: Awesome. So kind of going back to some of your stuff with Barn2Door, you guys started using Barn2Door a little over a year or two ago, correct?
Camille Abdel-Nabi: Yeah, it's been two years now. We started like a lot of other farms with the pandemic. We just transitioned away from farmer's markets that year cause some of them got shut down and needed to get a delivery service up and running to get all the products we had to our customers. So it came out of a necessity, but we're really glad we did it. And it was always something I was thinking about doing, you know, how do I get my products to people that don't go to the market, but definitely the pandemic [00:05:00] just gave us the push to change our business and use more technology with it.
Rory Loughran: Yeah and even with markets somewhat coming back, you guys have recently decided this year to, to do less markets. Is that correct and what kind of went into that process or that decision?
Camille Abdel-Nabi: Yeah, we have cut back this year from three farmer's markets weekly to only one. And the bottom line was we were feeling just burnt out and that we just couldn't keep up our current schedule and that we needed something to give, cause we were doing the three markets a week, two delivery days, also doing a small amount of wholesale. And last year we had no time to devote to our new property in terms of getting it set up.
And we really realized that we needed more time to do that. So it was a combination of just knowing that we couldn't keep up at the pace that we are, and also giving [00:06:00] more time to our new property and being able to have our crew come there and help us instead of sending people to the market, because it is a big time intensive thing where you really dedicate each market as two people.
So you're looking at, 18 hours or so that two people are there and sometimes those hours, you think you, you could devote to something else.
Rory Loughran: Yeah, definitely. You have to maximize the time. Well that's, I'm excited to hear how that, that works for you guys and obviously that gives you a little bit more room to invest in the new property and expand that and then also hopefully push more and more people to, to just purchasing online and getting it delivered, which is a little easier on your schedule I guess.
Camille Abdel-Nabi: Yeah, definitely. I really like also that it's all paid for before we harvest it when it comes to deliveries and wholesale, where at the markets, you are guesting a little bit, and sometimes there is wasted product with that.
Rory Loughran: Yeah, definitely. We kind of wanted to dive in [00:07:00] with you and something that we started to talk a little bit about in the last episode that you were on is some of your strategies around packaging of products. It doesn't really, maybe seem like one of the most exciting things to talk about, but it's something that every farmer is, has to deal with is how to package their product, to get it to a customer and can be a lot of questions around it. To start out when your farm first started selling direct to consumer, how did you package your products? How did you offer those to customers?
Camille Abdel-Nabi: Yeah. In those beginning years, it was definitely pretty basic. We were just using the typical produce bags you usually find at the grocery store and we really had one size of everything. And that's what we were bringing to the market and it worked. And I think at the market, what we did notice is those people are very plastic conscious. So they really don't want everything packaged and they prefer to have it loose. So it works really well for [00:08:00] that period of time. But once we started selling more ways, we definitely did have to think more about how to package things.
Rory Loughran: And so what are some of those changes that you've made since then?
Camille Abdel-Nabi: Yeah. Once we started doing the home delivery, we were noticing that a lot of customers were purchasing multiple eight ounce bags of, or two ounce clamshells of micro greens.
So I started to offer more, I call them family size bags. So they're a larger quantity and we offered at a lower price. And then also we say that it helps you save on plastic cause you're only getting one bag. We offer some other bulk things that people can get online. And then once we started going to the grocery stores with our, mostly our salad mix and our micro greens, our main goal was to try to make the packaging look as much like what was already in the store and what people were used to.
So that did encourage us to actually go to [00:09:00] clamshells and to pack our salad mix in a five ounce option with a nice label on it that says where it comes from and what's in it, just so it really looks just like the big farms that are coming in from California and places like that.
Rory Loughran: Yeah. It sounds like there was probably a lot along that process, but what are some of those key lessons that maybe you learned or maybe mistakes that you made at first when you were switching to some of these new packaging practices?
Camille Abdel-Nabi: Definitely trialing them all was really important. So I did make sure to do that before I debuted anything just to make sure, okay. It actually does fit in this clamshell. I think it's also just educating people why you made the changes, because I know, for example, at the farmer's market, we switched from a small plastic bag to a clamshell for our microgreens.
And we did get some feedback or backlash from that because people did think it was more plastic. And we were saying it's [00:10:00] a compostable clamshell. So just really trying to educate people. And also sometimes those decisions are because it's just more efficient to pack for our employees and everything, but I've learned that the customer's really don't care too much about that at the end of the day.
Rory Loughran: Yeah, that's funny. And then also from like the, I guess inventory side of things, along with making it easier for your employees to pack things, you guys, did you guys use to offer like a buyer's choice CSA or anything like that where the customer had a lot of power, I guess, in that selection process, did you guys do anything like that?
Camille Abdel-Nabi: Yeah, our first three or four years, we had a market style CSA and that's because where we learned to farm, that's the style that they use. So it was really, one table was all full of bunches and another table was full of pounds and each person could come in and [00:11:00] take, you know, four bunches and four pounds of whatever they wanted. And so we tried to duplicate that model and I will say the customers absolutely love it. The farm where we worked, they still do that. And they have a 300 person CSA with a 250 member waiting list.
So it's definitely very popular, but we didn't have a great location for people to come and do that, so we were taking it somewhere else; it felt like we were going to a farmer's market. And also it was really hard to predict how much of each item you needed, so you ended up bringing extra of everything and there was some waste involved. You know, if you have a secondary outlet like a market the next day, it can work.
I will say the one big benefit with it is, it is very sustainable and it does cut down on packing time cause you just put all the greens out loose and people can bring their own bags or, you don't really have to bunch the carrots and beets. You can put them [00:12:00] out on the pound side. So I think there is a lot of potential with that, but you have to have the right type of farm and I think you almost want to devote yourself completely to that. We did go to more of a "we choose" model and it's worked definitely and I think people who like it, and if people don't like it, then they can just get the online ordering what they want every week, so I try to also promote that.
Rory Loughran: Yeah, no, that's a good way of going about it. How specifically did that kind of change or what parts of your business did that kind of simplify when you went to like a farmer's choice CSA?
Camille Abdel-Nabi: Yeah, I mean, one thing is you don't have to staff the market stands. So no, I was staffing it at the other farm when I was an apprentice, so that makes a lot of sense. But when it was myself or my farming partner and an, or one of our employees there for seven hours setting it up [00:13:00] and standing there, it just felt like it wasn't profitable enough.
And we looked at it from that standpoint. It was definitely really great to, to meet the customers, and I think that sometimes with the bundles where we choose, we do miss that connection of it, but we try to supplement with farm tours and events and so that we can have a face to the vegetables like we used to.
Rory Loughran: Yeah, I like that. A face to the vegetables. I'm curious, when you do a farmer's choice, you know, people get like customers tend to get concerned. They don't know what's in it, or they don't know how to use what's in it. How do you kind of inform customers what they should expect every week from their subscription or every month from their subscription?
Camille Abdel-Nabi: Yeah. I send out a weekly email to everyone who's getting the CSA, letting them know what's in it, and I give small tips for cooking certain things. And then this year I'm [00:14:00] really trying to focus on doing twice a month blog posts with some of them being recipes.
Like I just featured rhubarb this week just because it's in the boxes, but people don't always know what to do with it. So definitely trying to educate and just really give people a heads up what they are getting. And if someone comes to me and they say that it's too much for them, I work with them to make it a bi-weekly subscription so that it's only coming every other week.
Some people order, we have two boxes, we have a salad lovers. That's more heavy on all the salad ingredients and then a more diverse one called the farmer's choice, and some people get both of them every week. I think it was just trying to be flexible and accommodate and educate everyone who is in the CSA, the subscription program.
Rory Loughran: Yeah. I'm curious, what was the rhubarb recipe that you shared this week?
Camille Abdel-Nabi: Oh, we gave a lot, you can do a rhubarb crumble, rhubarb cocktails and mocktails. [00:15:00] You can even make a barbecue sauce with it. So it's pretty versatile, but I think it's something that people sometimes feel a little afraid of.
Rory Loughran: Yeah. I love rhubarb, that's awesome. I've only had like crumbles and cakes, so I've got to try the rhubarb cocktail.
Camille Abdel-Nabi: Yeah makes a very good syrup.
Rory Loughran: Awesome. I know something that a lot of times, and you may have even gotten questions like this in Connect, Camille, but how do you offer your products, especially your greens today? Like, What are the sizes customers can get?
Camille Abdel-Nabi: Yeah. So on our online store, we have an eight ounce and a one pound bag of most of our greens. And then once we start having a lot, I'll even offer a three pound bulk bag. Sometimes we have personal chefs order through our website. So that works for them or just if you're having a big party and then to go to the stores, we have a five ounce bag or a clamshell. And one of the stores did just email me because some of their customers [00:16:00] don't like the clamshell, so she wants to also offer a one pound bag for those customers who want a larger amount and to move away from the clamshell. So I'm always willing to hear back from who our customers are and try to accommodate what they want.
Rory Loughran: Yeah. That's really smart. And then is that the same options that you have for microgreens that you do for the greens?
Camille Abdel-Nabi: No, the microgreens because they are so much more in a pound for something like micro broccoli, and we have a two ounce clamshell and then a four ounce clamshell. And then for something like the pea shoot sunnys, we do sort of the same as the other greens, where we have a six ounce bag and then a one pound bag and they are a little more expensive than the salad greens, but yeah, just try to have a lot of different options.
And then for the grocery stores, we go with a three ounce clamshell with pea shoots and sunnys. So, I will say the [00:17:00] training period for new employees is a little long because it is really nuanced and, you know, same micro greens go in a three ounce that go in a four ounce. So it does take a little bit of training and a system to make sure that it's all clear, but it is worth it.
Rory Loughran: Yeah. And then how did you decide on the sizes and was it a lot of it kind of customer feedback or what was that process?
Camille Abdel-Nabi: It was really just looking at what was typically sold. So I looked at other microgreen farmers. We have a really big one here or sometimes they're in the stores, so I really just always try to do that, is really mimic what's out there because I think these bigger farms and bigger companies they've thought a lot about the ideal size. So I think that's always a really good place to start, and then you can go from there for what works for you. We used to do the sunflower [00:18:00] shoots in different sizes than the pea shoots, and we definitely realize, okay, that's an unnecessary level of complication.
We can just make those things like all the same, because it was getting a little bit out of hand, but try to make it easy, but also try to be flexible to.
Rory Loughran: That, and that's a really smart way to look at it too, is that the, a lot of the bigger farms or big food supply organizations they've thought about how the best way to package something to make it convenient.
They probably can't they definitely can't offer the same quality of products you can, but they have done some research and thought through that. So that's a smart way to, to mimic that practice. And then I was curious too, with the bulk options, how did you decide to do that and what went into the decision to start offering bulk options of your products?
Camille Abdel-Nabi: Yeah. We always do a survey at the end of the year, people said that they really liked getting the bulk options that we had and would like to see more of that. So we used to just sort of do, you know, bulk tomatoes for canning season or bulk [00:19:00] rhubarb for people who like to preserve it.
And then we saw, "oh wow, people like getting a lot of stuff." Some people. Some people put it in smoothies, so getting a three pound bag of spinach is great for some people. So really just always trying to get customer feedback and hear what they want and try to accommodate what they say and as much as possible.
Rory Loughran: Yeah. If somebody goes with the bulk option, do you have a specific calculated kind of discount, I guess, so they get from buying in bulk or have you guys picked like a 15% number or something like that?
Camille Abdel-Nabi: Yeah, we really just do it, those big bags at the same price as our wholesale bags. For example, if you're buying an eight ounce bag of salad, it's going to come out to be $12 a pound. But if you're getting a three pound bulk bag, you're getting it, at $8.50 a pound. So it really is a discount. Maybe we need to raise some prices after this year, but right [00:20:00] now with everybody raising prices, we're trying not to and we did do a price raise last year. So it is always important just to look at what the costs are that go into it.
I did just have to raise the clamshell case cost to stores and I just had an open dialogue with them and said, "hey, I'm going to have to raise this. Does this work for you? Should I look into a different option if it's going to be too expensive?" So it's definitely, always important if different costs go up, you definitely should look at if your costs are right for what you're selling your stuff for.
Rory Loughran: Definitely. To go into some of the specifics on your packaging, a little more is all of your packaging bags or clamshells, is all of that branded with your logo?
Camille Abdel-Nabi: Yeah, we have a nice sticker for most of our greens that we had designed locally and worked with the designer. So that actually, we feel like really helps us stand out in the stores because it [00:21:00] has a really nice personal touch to it.
And we make sure to stay on it "local 100% organic and also no till, and just really promote those things." Yeah, we don't label everything that goes to the farmer's market, just because it doesn't seem to matter there as much. We really label the box that it's in, so people clearly see what's in there and then we're there to talk to them about different things. So it seemed like an unnecessary step and cost to go to the markets, at least for us. But, maybe if we were doing it, we'd be selling more, but it felt right to this, go with on labeled plastic bags there and that seems to work well.
Rory Loughran: And so then for when you're packaging those things, it's as simple as, you just take in an unmarked pretty much clamshell or bag, and then put your sticker on it if you're going to be doing that?
Camille Abdel-Nabi: Yep. So I like to have like bulk labeling parties that helps a [00:22:00] lot. So sometimes we have 30 minutes at the end of the day and I'm just like, "all right, everybody come in because we pack everything as we're harvesting, so literally the salad is coming out of the field, we're drying it and it's going right into the clamshell. So when it starts to get hot and we're picking hundreds of pounds of greens, anything we can do to save time in that moment is really helpful.
I've definitely set myself up with a really nice label printer, label spooler set up just to make it easy to have a lot of labels on hand cause that was one thing that was happening. I was just printing them when I had time a little bit. I didn't have a way to spool them all up, so now I can just print a thousand at once, have them on hand. And if we have some time to go label them, then we can go do that.
Rory Loughran: So that was going to be my next question. So you print all of them, like you just bought like a labeler or some kind of printer and you print all these yourself?
Camille Abdel-Nabi: Yeah, we have a [00:23:00] thermal, a direct thermal printer, and then I buy the labels and then there's the label spooler and it works pretty well. I'll say it doesn't have as many options as if you were getting it printed professionally just in terms of the colors and things you can use, but for us, at least at this point, it works really well.
Rory Loughran: And then I think you've touched on too. There's I guess like a natural resistance, maybe when customers see more plastic or something being used and you mentioned that yours is plastic, but it is compostable. Did you kind of see a benefit from using like those sustainable methods when you package your products? Does that kind of help mitigate some of that customer wariness?
Camille Abdel-Nabi: Not as much as I would've hoped. I think customers really want a sustainable product and they want to eliminate plastic and I think the problem is as farmers or business owners, we really just don't have very many [00:24:00] options for that. This is a plant-based plastic, but it's only compostable in a commercial facility, so it still has to go in the garbage, but we're trying to say "well, at least it's not made from petroleum", but it doesn't advertise it super well on the clamshell anyways, so I don't think it's as effective as we had hoped.
I'm always looking for an actually compostable bag or clamshell, but it just doesn't seem like what we needed exists and it's definitely really hard because customers want it and I know they do and I want it too, but what they want and we want isn't really out there at this time. So I'm hopeful that in the coming years there will be more options to make everybody happy and I'd feel better about it for sure too.
Rory Loughran: Yeah, definitely. It's an interesting problem that probably isn't something that most people think about running [00:25:00] into down the road, but yeah, if there's nothing out there that's a major problem.
And then I was curious too, what has the response been or has there been any response to taking that extra step of putting the stickers, on putting your logo on, and adding a little bit of branding to your packaging? Because I know there's a lot of farms that don't do that and they want to, and they're thinking about starting it. So is that something you've seen some reward from?
Camille Abdel-Nabi: Yeah, I think we wouldn't be having this success that we have in the grocery stores without it. You know, just before this podcast, I was trying to get some new accounts, so I walked in with samples and the guy even said, he's like, "oh, we buy Olivia's Organics, this looks really similar to that, just in terms of how it was packaged and it has a nice label on it." And I think just bringing that element of being professional and looking that way goes a long way if you're trying to get into those retail outlets. I think it's definitely worth it and it will pay off.[00:26:00]
Rory Loughran: That's awesome. Do you guys use the logos and stuff on your delivery too? I know you mentioned with, like at the market, you feel like it doesn't necessarily play as big a role. But with delivery where someone might not have come into contact with you, do you put logos and things on that packaging?
Camille Abdel-Nabi: Well, The main thing is we had a wax box custom designed for our farm. Beautiful box that has all these like hand drawn vegetable graphics on it and has our name on it and it also says, "please return the box to us" on there. So that is one way that we have made our delivery more sustainable is that we get a lot of those boxes back.
So that's like the main way. If people get microgreens in their deliveries, they get labeled just because we have eight different kinds. So it makes sense for that to distinguish what's what. But yeah, I mean, and we have a big logo on our van. We made sure to do that. So at least they know, you know, we're [00:27:00] coming and they see us coming and see the nice box and then have some relation with our farm name through that.
Rory Loughran: Yeah, that's awesome. I feel like the decal delivery van is like, that's a big step for a lot of farms. So that's really cool that you guys have that.
Camille Abdel-Nabi: Yeah it's definitely, people say they've just found us driving behind us on the road.
Rory Loughran: That's awesome, it's working. And then with that box, you drop that at the doorstep and then how do you get that back from people?
Camille Abdel-Nabi: Yeah. If people do leave a cooler out, then we will just transfer it right then and there and take the box back. But not everybody does, so usually they'll just leave it out at their next delivery. So definitely if it's just a customer that orders once and never orders again, then we're never going to see that box.
But most of the time we get people to, to order another time and our wholesale accounts, you know, same deal. They know that they can give the boxes back to us. So it definitely seems much better having the wax box. It's a [00:28:00] little more expensive, but compared to cardboard, you can get a lot of uses out of it and you also, you don't have to line it with any plastic. You can just put the wet items right in there and all the customers have seemed to like that a lot.
Rory Loughran: Yeah, that's awesome. And more, like you said, a more sustainable way of doing that. How did you go about getting those? Did you just, was there like a local packaging company that you were able to get those customized from?
Camille Abdel-Nabi: Yeah, there's a packaging company that has a local branch. So I had that the same designer who did our labels, she designed the box and then I worked with the packaging company to get it printed. So it was a one-time $500 fee just to have a plate made for us, a die cut, and now we can just continually use that.
I'd say the one thing with it is you do have to put an order minimum in of 4,000 boxes, so we have a [00:29:00] year's worth of supplies. So everywhere is just full of these boxes. But we just used to have to put a sticker on it that said, "please return the box" and this just seemed to make it so we got a lot more back because it has our name on it.
Rory Loughran: Yeah, no, that's awesome. And 4,000 you'll be set for a little while or maybe, hopefully you're not set for a while. You gonna have to get more.
Camille Abdel-Nabi: Yeah right? Probably better if we go through them.
Rory Loughran: Awesome. Well, do you have any advice maybe for farmers who might be going about that kind of process of figuring out packaging and where to get it? What kind of route to take with it?
Camille Abdel-Nabi: Yeah I think, you know, get on Instagram and follow a lot of farms and ask them questions. I know I get a lot of questions now about our label printer and I've helped to a few farms set that up. And I know as farmers, we're always pretty willing to answer each other's questions.
I think ask questions and then yes, see what other people are doing. Go in the grocery stores, visit some [00:30:00] markets, ask some questions, and see what your different options are and what you like.
Rory Loughran: Yeah, awesome. That's great advice. And then is your packaging in terms of your subscriptions, is that all the same? Do you just basically group things together or bundle things together to make that subscription then?
Camille Abdel-Nabi: Yeah it's a box worth. So usually there's about six or seven items in it. I've chosen to make them a little bit smaller of a box that people get every week, just because I did feel that when we had our old CSA, that they were getting more. A lot of people weren't going through things quickly enough. So through a little bit of a smaller size for that, and then just encourage people to add items on if they want any and they get a 10% discount off everything in the store if they want to add more things on.
One thing that I've found has worked really well is I've offered a sample [00:31:00] box that's up there. So if people are interested, they can just order a sample box and see what it's like. And that usually gives people a pretty good idea of the quantity and the quality and what they can expect out of it.
Rory Loughran: And then with the idea of them then going and signing up for the subscription?
Camille Abdel-Nabi: Yeah and some people do. Some people just seem to like continually ordered the sample box, which is interesting, but It's fine. At least you're getting like a $25 purchase with that box. So yeah, I think some people just don't like the commitment, but they don't want to change, so it's this medium ground.
Rory Loughran: So then you kind of touched on it there, but there is like a benefit really to signing up with this subscription form of getting your products, and that's the 10% discount, everything else in the store?
Camille Abdel-Nabi: Yep. They get 10% off everything else in the store. And we do have some [00:32:00] products that we buy in from others farms, so it includes those products as well. We offer some bundles from our friend's farm and then we do some scallops and sriracha and stuff like that. So yeah, 10% off everything and you can go on and order and people do take advantage of that.
Rory Loughran: That's awesome. I don't think I've ever heard of that, that approach to it before, but it's kind of like a cool way of like gating items. And then does your subscription also kind of have like some kind of built in like discount or is that basically the discount that you get is that additional 10% off everything else?
Camille Abdel-Nabi: If people pay up front, they get a discount on it. I've made that option just so there are those people who want to just pay for it and we get that money right away. It definitely really helps in the winter time, in the early season. I mean, It's May and definitely it's still helpful. I think, for us, we're really making our, the bulk of our [00:33:00] profits in the third quarter, so any type of upfront payment we can get now is really helpful.
Rory Loughran: And then I guess, on the subscriptions as well, you mentioned the packaging can get a little bit confusing or requires a little bit of training with how many different options there are. Does bundles and subscriptions kind of simplify that process for you or for your employees?
Camille Abdel-Nabi: I think it definitely makes the pack-up of those boxes a little bit easier. Not so much the actual bagging of the greens, because the subscription items are just with all the other items. Other people ordered 15 bags of spinach and I'm adding on 15. Yeah, my employees don't really know how that's broken down, but it, when it comes to actually packing the boxes, you know, it's pretty nice when you have 15 that are just the same and you can get into that routine of adding things to those boxes.
Rory Loughran: Yeah, figuring out packaging is kind of, I think a lot of times a big unknown. It's like one of those [00:34:00] logistical things that you have to figure out, but nobody that gets into farming typically gets into it to figure out packing logistics.
So, we've gone through a lot of your process and your decisions that you kind of went through. But are there any final tips that you would give to farmers on how to package their products and hopefully, maybe streamline some of that process, while also keeping it profitable and meeting customer expectations?
Camille Abdel-Nabi: Yeah, I'd say as much as you can do in the off season, do that, which I put off season and in quotation marks. So many of us are farming almost year round, but order samples, start packing them, see what fits, and then start bringing those different products to places that you want to sell them and just have an open dialogue, you know, "do you think that this is gonna work or is there something else you'd you prefer?" And try to give options, but also not make yourself crazy or make [00:35:00] your training overly complicated. There's definitely gotta be some level of nuance, but just, it also depends how many different outlets you have.
You know, If you're just going to the farmer's market, then that's one thing. But for us where we're doing so many different ways of selling it, it does just take a different level of nuance. So don't get overwhelmed by it. I will say sometimes I try to like take on a new packaging product in the summertime. Like last year I did find out about these bags that are made by this company overseas that can actually go in a backyard compost and I was just trying to take it on in the middle of June. And I was just like, "why am I doing this right now, it isn't important." Think about it, but also do it at a time that makes sense for you.
Rory Loughran: Yeah, no that's great advice. That's definitely like your busiest time of year.
Camille Abdel-Nabi: Yeah, exactly.
Rory Loughran: Awesome. [00:36:00] I want to extend my thanks to Camille for joining us on this week's podcast episode. Here at Barn2Door we're humbled to support thousands of farms across the country, including farmers like Camille who implement sustainable agricultural practices and support their local community. If you would like to ask Camille any questions directly, you can meet her and other farm advisors in Barn2Door Connect. To learn more and register to attend, go to barn2door.com/connect, those sessions occur weekly. For more information on Little River Farms, you can visit littleriverfarmri.com. To learn more about Barn2Door, including access to numerous free resources and best practices for your farm, go to barn2door.com/resources. Thank you for tuning in and we'll see you next week.
[00:37:00]